Chinese incursion in Eastern Ladakh

[timmy]

The Chinese, having learnt of the imminent arrival of Rajinikanth in their midst,seem to have rolled up their tents and gone back.....or is it because of the possibility of Naga going there with his 105

Rajinikanth would undoubtedly be even more effective than USS Kitty Hawk in this regard.

[timmy]

Like it hate it envy it Red Dragon has their key policies lined up Economic foreign and Defense. US and China have a mutually beneficial relationship as some one pointed out earlier..The walmart istic economy in entire world and US in particular folks loves cheap goods and now China is financing our economic recovery - Mutually assured destruction US fails China fails - atleast the pundist here think so -- and have they ever been wrong? This is the beginning remember India and China or Pakistan or Nepal or Bangladesh none has any water treaty with CHina. So be prepared for Brahmaputra water issues once China starts diverting the water via dams.

Go to Africa or South America China is the nation which is doing a better job than world bank in executing infrastructure projects ( per world standard ) and they are buying up natural resources...Chinese even won the great bullet train project for California connecting San Fran with LA. Imagine turn of last century Chinese labors were responsible in laying down the train tracks in US and now complete circle in the sand..

A surplus of trillion dollares can do wonders kudos to Chinese on that front. Once you build advance landing grounding at Daulat Begi PLA will come to check it out and mark their territory. Per Chinese logic why not intimidate Indians right before bilateral meeting and close to elections and off course the Dalai lama thing too

Cheers

Seriously, there is little to be added to this than you have done here, Navi. The way the Chinese have thrown massive chunks of their monetary surplus into scientific research is what I find most troubling about this, because it is connected with long-term leadership. When countries are small, economically, they commonly copy the ideas and goods of larger countries, using their cheap labor as an advantage. As their per capita income increases and they approach the wealthier nations in national wealth, they cannot rely on cheap labor to maintain their economic position. The only thing that suffices in this case is innovation, which is how the leading countries stay on top of the economic pyramid.

Korea is an excellent example of this. Just 20 years ago, my cousin worked in human resources for a major US machinery-making firm whose name you would recognize. She talked about how their Korean operations were so problematical: Workers inspecting heat-treated gears would reject and discard them because they were not the right color (the color being a result of the heat treating). A third world education is not going to be successful in a first world working environment. Today, the Koreans lead the world in educating their youth, and they have long since passed the stage of copying goods and relying on cheap labor: Samsung and many other Korean companies are known for their innovation.

In this, Korea has followed in the footsteps of Japan, which also relied on cheap labor and copying junky products.

Whether or not China can translate the joint ventures into native expertise and whether or not China can develop a solid foundation for innovation is the issue. If China is successful in these endeavors, they will undoubtedly take first place on the world stage for years to come.

Their leaders know this, and they also know that they are in a race with energy and environmental issues, a race which must be won. They also know they must satisfy the growing demands for economic prosperity and keep a lid on the growing demands for an increased voice in the way things are run. They have great challenges in these areas.

[vijayshimla]

What China is doing with India –resorting to Occupy and Defy.

Occupy and defy is an ancient Chinese tactic and it involves moving military forces and economic activity into a disputed area that will then be claimed by China because the Chinese are there. China dares the other side to attack, secure in the knowledge that this would make China the victim and help China win any ensuing battles. This tactic has become more effective as Chinese military and economic power has grown. Most of China’s neighbours do not have sufficient military power to make a credible threat to the Chinese incursion and China will often offer economic incentives (or threats) to their victims. Now after Philippines, Japan, Taiwan Etc. It is turn of India to get a taste of this ancient Chinese Torture, only because Chinese have analysed that weak Indian Government will act its spineless self and they have thus succeeded.

[timmy]

The reason (as per me) for this invasion is manifold - first, to test Indian waters after all the talk about what a strong RM (Def Minister) India has. Next, to show the South Asian countries not to rely on India and the US as far as the South China Sea dispute is concerned. Finally, to show that the only blue sea navy here is spineless and not even as ascertaining as smaller Philippine, Vietnamese, Indonesian and Japanese navies. This will force these South China Sea bordering nations redraw their assessment on India's capacity to stand by them in time of need. It will also send a strong signal to land-based martial elements in Afghanistan that PRC and not India has to be the mainstay there post 2014 when US and NATO say "Bye-Bye" to them. After all, it just took a bunch (company) of 50 - and now, by some reports, 20 PLA to stifle the entire wannabe Super Power. Land grabbing is just secondary - prime objective is to make a laughing stock of India post the 50th anniversary year of the Great Kick in Indian Hiney of 1962. And PRC has succeeded.

This is a perceptive analysis and makes a great deal of sense, given the political capital the Chinese have lost in the recent goings on re: North Korea. They have not exactly endeared themselves to South Asia over this North Korean thing, nor over the business between them and Japan over that rock.

Thanks for pointing this out, a very good point.

My guess ? They will withdraw in time for the new Premier to arrive in India to once again get India's commitment on Tibet and One China and talk of how peaceful relations exist between PRC and India - a lesson to be learnt by other (SCS) neighbors egged on by external forces (read the US). May be later a few million $$$ will be transferred into numbered accounts of certain elements of GOI for the "good boy/ girl" behavior. And the same elements will chirp how Gandhian way of non-violence and dialog solved the so-called crisis that could have been blown into a full-fledged war.

regs
A.

It looks like this is the way things are working out. Check out this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22460923

and this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-22430301

So, now they turn their gaze elsewhere:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22460810

"What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine..."

[nagarifle]

thats the commi attudide

[Sakobav]

Now for the view from West side a satirical one well written By Nadeem Paracha
http://dawn.com/2013/05/09/pakistan-chi ... a-history/

When I was a kid in the 1970s, I remember Pakistan’s state-owned TV channel, PTV, used to keep playing a catchy song about Pak-China friendship.

It went something like this: ‘Pak-Cheen dosti wang woye, wang woye, wang woye, wang woye, Pak-Cheen dosti zindabad, zindabad, zindabad, zindaabaaad.’

[timmy]

Very good, Navi!

But I think the author missed some of the winking that was done by President Van Damme's predecessor and his national security advisor.

We even had a movie over here about the snorter who was involved in the whole winking business, too!

[Sakobav]

timmy

Responding to your point on chinese throwing money at science and technology...here is one reason why..unlike majority of leaders and politicians across the world Chinese head honchos are technocrats typically like engineers etc. This is one of the reason ..

now another oblique one why is their aero space industry good? Check this mistake made by US on exceptional Chinese aeronautical engineer Qian Xuesen who was a serving US officer, assisted in setting up Jet Propulsion Lab at Caltech and participated in Operation paperclip interrogated Nazi Rocket scientists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

Cheers

[timmy]

Navi, I'm not convinced that their system is better.

This fellow was not the only one who suffered under those boorish idiots and their red-baiting, led by goon-in-chief J Edgar Hoover, who was aided by many folks who saw opportunity in playing on the ignorance, stupidity, fears, and other foibles of human nature of the US Public. Many people were chased off to other nations, and others, like Robert Oppenheimer (of all people) also lost their clearance under such accusations and suspicions. The worst of these idiots, Senator Joseph McCarthy, even tried to accuse General George C Marshall of treason, until Joseph Welch tied a knot in his tail on TV.

However, while other scientists went back to China, I would still make the case that, whatever the shortcomings of our system here (and they certainly exist), the environment for innovation is still superior to China's, and that's the point of the article -- China wants to duplicate innovation. Engineers can be obtained who implement existing principles, but the people who develop those principles -- the ones who innovate -- that is the part the Chinese seek to develop, and on that count, the jury is still out.

I am reminded of how Korean Air was once one of the most unsafe airlines to fly. This was investigated, and it was found that the copilot, according to cultural norms, would not dispute or seek to correct the pilot, even when he knew the pilot was making a mistake. Korean Air investigated this and found that in the USA, the copilot would freely offer opinions and suggestions to the pilot, and the pilot would normally listen, rather than hiding behind a cloak of authority to save face. Korean Air sought to break down this aspect of culture in the cockpit and duplicate an atmosphere of collaboration, rather than command.

Having worked in research labs in academia, I'm familiar with the excessive lickspittle/toady attitude, and PIs running their labs as their own personal fiefdoms. I'm pretty sure you're aware of this sort of environment, as well.

However, there is still a good bit of room for a person to innovate in the world of research here in the USA. Even though I know China is trying to duplicate this sort of thing, I'm not convinced they have achieved it, nor do I think they are guaranteed of doing so.

[goodboy_mentor]

Very interesting discussion on Geo political game of the Chinese in the Indian sub continent.