A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

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A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by OverUnderPump » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:22 pm

Not sure if this has been posted before, but it was a good read.
A police officer's service firearm, that once instilled fear of law into trouble-makers, is fast becoming a matter of concern for the cops themselves. The service weapon, many cops say, has become more of a source of tension than an effective tool.

For many cops, the gun is just a part of the uniform. The only time they touch the weapon is while getting ready. An officer said that most of his colleagues retired having served the department for three decades or more without using the weapon even once. The only exception to this being the mandatory annual firing practice. This is true for all the state's cops except ones who may have served in Naxal-affected districts and, of course, the trigger-happy encounter-specialists of Mumbai police.

The fear of judicial review and departmental enquiry makes cops keep their hands off the weapon even while facing an angry crowd or a dangerous goon. It has been spoken that some cops would rather let a wanted criminal escape than challenge him with the pistol to deter him from fleeing. The department tells the force to be extra careful while using their weapon. Human rights scrutiny also acts as a deterrent. There is a lot of hype by media that puts the case under added scrutiny, say cops.

Despite shunning their use, firearms can still be source of endless worries for the cops. The latest example is of the assistant police inspector (API) of Chandrapur. While he was away on some work, his son used the firearm left at home to shoot at his friend. A senior officer in Mumbai was in dock after his wife complained her husband was threatening her with the weapon. Apart from this, there had been numerous cases where cops or their kin used the weapon to commit suicide.

With the department holding cops accountable for every bullet they fire (which is relaxed for Naxal-affected Gadchiroli), the personnel and senior officers prefer to refrain from shooting in the air as an effective measure to disperse mob. The department, apart from seeking account of each bullets fired, also minutely reviews whether the need to fire was genuine.

Forget firing in the air to control a mob, most cops dread going into a crowd for the fear of their weapons getting snatched or stolen. "People were pelting stone on me but I was more concerned about not losing the pistol. It is better to be at hospital on sick leave than to get suspended or face departmental enquiry for losing the service weapon," said a senior inspector.

A retired senior officer narrated how he once wanted to fire with his service weapon to tackle a violent mob during a protest. The bullets fell off after the magazine slipped from his hand. The cop was fortunate to survive the attack.

The firearm, on several occasions, becomes a weapon against the cop himself. In a recent case, a commando of Nagpur police wanted to tame down a bootlegger by brandishing his weapon. The bootlegger snatched the firearm, thrashed the commando with it, and ran away with the gun. A sub-inspector of city police had picked up a quarrel under the influence of alcohol with another customer at a bar in Sadar a couple of years ago. His gun was robbed from him during the scuffle. He was, however, lucky to get it back. Another PSI was recently suspended in Gondia for losing his pistol while patrolling.
Source: http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... n-of-worry

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Katana » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:44 pm

Can't figure out whether to laugh or cry.....................the state our police is in. In rural areas, I have heard of cases where the police have been scared s@#$less in challenging perps armed with just agricultural tools.
Justice alone is the mainstay of government and the source of prosperity to the governed, injustice is the most pernicious of things; it saps the foundations of the government and brings ruin upon the realm - Sher Shah Sur, Sultan-ul-Adil.

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by thomast1 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:43 pm

:agree: laugh or cry, dont know!!
also i havent seen in the near past a single cop carrying a loaded gun!!! it was super funny when a cop told the magazine was in the locker, and no more loaded pistols due to an accidental firing issue close to an year back... ( no the gun didnt fire by itself, a lady cop accidentally fired a round)

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Subal das » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:33 pm

you have to be smart to survive. chances are high always that cops can be shot by criminals from their gun. so better do not keep it loaded. there is also pepper sprays, expandable batons, electro shock, they should increase of use these non lethal weapons. microwave weapons - must have in India for dispersing crowds.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by thomast1 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:02 pm

i am sure 90% cops (L'n'O) would'nt have heard of any non-leathal option than "lathi".. sad state. either beaten up or shot.

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Subal das » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:04 pm

keep in touch with people much more important then relay on technology, not to say that can bring food on the table
you have to be on their place to see the picture from inside.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by OverUnderPump » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:16 pm

Subal das wrote: you have to be on their place to see the picture from inside.
Lets look at it objectively;No one has it easy no matter whatever jobs they hold. Nothing is a cakewalk(babus and netas aside).
Its still a 'JOB' which someone signs up for and a JOB has its 'Key Responsibility Areas' (borrowing from management jargon). One who signs up for a 'JOB' does so with full knowledge of the working conditions,the pay and the perks etc. He has to possess the skill sets required for the same, and that in this case includes familiarity/expertise with weapons and combat techniques(lets not even get started on that). If the 'laws' are preventing them from practicing, they should speak up and get it amended. They did speak up for pay-revisions in the 6th pay commision didn't they.

For the record; as per the sixth pay commission a 'Junior Time Scale' grade IPS officer who used to draw 8,000-13,500 INR will now draw a revised salary in the range of 15,600-39,100 INR + Grade Pay of 5400 INR

Shirking responsibility by citing unacceptable working conditions after signing up is like saying damn I knew I was getting a lemon; but I still wanted it 'back then' but now for some reason I dont want it anymore.And I say this 'only' for the ones who shirk work by giving such excuses not to the ones who are actually sweating it out.

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by essdee1972 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:53 pm

OUP,
The KRA for the job in our police forces is the extra income they get. Hence you get stories of some posts in the police (as well as other) department getting sold for huge amounts. Postings in Octroi / Sales Tax / other posts are typically "purchased" by the incumbents. Any honest officer (and there are quite a few) who tries to fight the system is systematically (oops, bad pun!) ground down, till he either quits in disgust, converts to the prevailing philosophy, or is transferred to really risky posts (say in Naxalite-infested areas) and gets "permanently" sorted out. Many of us would personally know of such cases, not only in the Police, but also in the PWD, MoD, DRDO, RTO, etc. wherever a government employee has a chance to make a dishonest buck.

Check out the controversy on "bullet-proof" jackets in Mumbai. No one here knows that "bullet-proof" is a myth - the proper term is body armour. And no one knows (or at least says) that no bullet-proofing in the world could have saved our top-cops from a Kalashnikov (or clone) fired at 4-5 feet range (unless they were in a T72). Procuring better "bullet-proof" jackets (and now boats!! even the Bismarck was not completely "bullet-proof", was she?) is just another excuse for our powers that be to get more in their Swiss accounts.
As the back-of-truck grafitti has it, "100 mein 99 beimaan, phir bhi mera Bharat mahaan" :cry: :lol:
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by thomast1 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:00 pm

well said OUP,
the on-card physical fitness is checked at the time of admission to Police (constabulary) and never after, right?? its all wrong from there, for a job which requires interaction with people 99% of the time, who can communicate good among the grass root level in Police...
Sadly, being in their place, ie, in the Police Station has'nt given a feel that they do a good job. May be because they are trained to be rude, (if not at the Police Training College or in IPS camps by senior officers). Somewhere our Policemen still think they are paid by the Ruler of India as it was before 1947.
Nothing to blame here other than our own Police Act 160 year old (older than the nation) and still going strong!!!the priority is to oppress and rule, and to aid the wrong babu and Ruler.

but i do beleieve things are changing, young blood atleast at a few places are worth some hope..

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Subal das » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:48 pm

that is quite nice picture here, I would add to it culture of sabotage.

Science of sabotage in India on very high level!! Non one country in the world succeed that much, and rules and regulations created everyday with one only purpose to sabotage the whole system.

sabotage is a main objective of any corrupted culture, more sabotage more money. that was quite true with the games. Not that administrators specially were planning to sabotage it, they just never been trained to do anything else.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by snIPer » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:40 pm

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase - Fearing the gun.
This is absurd but at the same time i feel that this fear has been instilled in them by our famous "red tape" that never ceases to amaze us.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by OverUnderPump » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:42 pm

thomast1 wrote: May be because they are trained to be rude, (if not at the Police Training College or in IPS camps by senior officers). Somewhere our Policemen still think they are paid by the Ruler of India as it was before 1947.
Ditto Thomas, and being 'rude' doesnt exactly hold too well with the people (netas read 'subjects') so the 'people intelligence and support' structure goes down the drain.Even a traffic cop would talk you for a minor offence as if you're a hardened criminal.
thomast1 wrote: Nothing to blame here other than our own Police Act 160 year old (older than the nation) and still going strong!!!the priority is to oppress and rule, and to aid the wrong babu and Ruler.
Exactly, the department functions to 'protect and serve' and to figure out who are the 'protected and the served' does not require a rockect scientist. That said, if the Act is holding up justice and proper functioning, they should endeavour to change it (like they changed their pay scales), but then thats too much work isnt it.And the powers that be are quite happy with the state of affairs. I guess we'll live on with the equation of 'too many laws= too little justice'.
thomast1 wrote: but i do beleieve things are changing, young blood atleast at a few places are worth some hope..
Well all us do live by hopes and dreams dont we, so lets just hope for the best 'but prepare for the worst'.

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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Scott Mitchell » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:52 am

Two words : "riot drills"

Two more, Crowd control.

Two more, Nonlethal force.

Two more, Policy Review.

you get the picture...twos can stack pretty high in my book. Reform is in dire need.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by airgun_novice » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:08 pm

Seemingly a story out of "Once Upon a Time in Mumbai" - the times were the same (1970s) - when MEN roamed the streets of Mumbai - in Khaki and Blue. The trio of Haji Mastan, Karim Lala and Yusuf Patel (the pre-cursors to Dawood Ibrahim) pretty much decided which part of South Mumbai to foment trouble. Politicians still faced a few upright police officers (Alas! a species getting extinct faster than the Tiger) like Wagle, Kasbekar, Rebeiro etc. and the men in Khadi did what they could to make life miserable for such men in Khaki.

So off and on, mobs laden with swords, sickles, sticks, soda bottles and occasional "gaonthi" (aka "katta" in Dawood era) etc. would often cause trouble and Mumbai's "Blues" (havaldars/ constables) in their shorts well-armed with canes and an occasional "Khaki" (Inspector) with a 6-chamber (with bullets kept out in a small jewelry box in pocket) would be called upon to restore law and order. On one such occasion, a well-armed mob was confronted with a young Inspector duly armed with a service 6-chamber revolver. As if on a cue, a grinding stone set (mixers and grinders were yet to be an every-household item) was thrown on him and his police posse from a window of an adjoining road-side chawl. The stones smashed just a few inches on the ground, broke into pieces and injured the young Inspector and a havaldar standing with him in the foot. The roar went up in the mob and they charged towards the policemen, as these two bent down to take a look at their wounds. The Inspector in quick response - loaded his revolver and fired ONE SHOT IN AIR - the mob turned tail and ran off. Funny (or ironic) as it may sound, law and order was restored rather immediately.

No human was remotely injured by that one shot. But what was injured by that one shot in air was the ego of Haji Mastan ("his" men following "his" orders were repelled) and his sponsors in Maharashtra State Assembly. The "matter" caused such a furore in the Assembly that the Cop was asked for an explanation there ! Forget self-defense and the defense of his fellow policemen. It was duly unaccepted in totality. He was then transferred out of "field" and implanted onto a *desk job* at Mumbai CID's for many years. NO CIVILIAN CAME OUT IN SUPPORT OF THESE POLICEMEN.

Sorry for posting this a bit late - but just got to the thread while browsing and thought of sharing this story of the better part of Mumbai police which gets victimized by the System and Society which they are supposed to protect.
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Re: A cop's gun is a weapon of worry

Post by Subal das » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:14 pm

thanks for sharing that was nice reading and real good example.
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